Heartland is pricing kids out of college

By:  Diane Benjamin

Budgets for Heartland Community College only go back to 2012 on their website.  Below are tuition increases starting in 2012:

PDF page 11:   https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy12.pdf

Note tuition was increased $16 per credit hour in 2012.  

 

2013:

PDF page 11:  https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy13.pdf

Since 2012 didn’t mention a “Student Life Fee” and it’s only $1 per credit hour, I’m betting it started in 2013.

$16 + $4 + $1 = $21

2014:

PDF page 11:  https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy14.pdf

$21 + 3 = $24

2015:

No increase!  PDF page 11:   https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy15.pdf

2016:

PDF page 14:   https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy16.pdf

$24+$3 = $27

2017:

PDF page 15:  https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy17.pdf

 

$27 + $2 = $29

2018:

PDF page 18:   https://www.heartland.edu/documents/bo/budgetfy18.pdf

Another NEW Fee is added:

 

$29 + $2 + $2 = $33

Proposed 2019:

$33 + $5 = $38 per credit hour increase since 2012.

What was tuition for Summer 2018?

$142 per semester hour +

Program Development and Facilities Enhancement Fee (required for all students) – $2 per semester hour +

Universal LMS Fee (required for all students) – $2 per semester hour  +

Student Life Fee (required for all students) – $7 per semester hour

Total per semester hour is $142 + $2 + $2 +$7 = $153

In 2012 the cost had to be $153 – $33 = $120 per semester hour.  ( the $5 2019 increase isn’t in effect yet )

$120 x 12 semester hours = $1440$153 x 12 = $1836.  That is an increase of almost 30% in just 8 years per semester.

Total cost for two semesters is estimated at $3,672 + $900 for books and supplies = $4,572.  (Before 2019 increase)

https://www.heartland.edu/payingForCollege/cost/index.html

Did you see how many times Declining Enrollment is mentioned every time tuition was increased?

How do costs go up that much when Heartland has 729 employees now and they had 873 in 2015?

https://blnnews.com/2015/12/09/the-heartland-scam/ & http://www.heartland.edu/about/facts.html

One reason could be programs that have little to do with education.  Just announced is mental health support and stress reduction techniques via video conferencing.   Press Release

I wonder how the snowflakes will ever survive the real world?

This Board is elected, maybe voting matters.

Is it cheaper than going to ISU?  Yes, ISU is $370.25 per semester hour.  Heartland is trying to catch up though.

ISU rates:    https://studentaccounts.illinoisstate.edu/tuition/tables/table-o.php

 

 

96 thoughts on “Heartland is pricing kids out of college

  1. It’s the gold-plated state pensions, diamond-encrusted COLA increases, better-than-private state benefits, and contracts with raises far exceeding actual cost of living. The state can’t send money to the universities that they are sending to retirees. So to make up the salary increases, etc. they have to lay off non-Union and non-tenure personnel.

    At ISU, the biggest money-makers are adjunct profs. They make a few thousand per month but generate gobs of tuition dollars. Compare that to some full profs teaching 10-15 students per class, if that, and making 3-5 times as much. Usually these profs have less real-world experience too.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. For 12 hours at ISU with mandatory fees, it’s $5,692.36. For 12 hours at HCC with mandatory fees, it’s $1836, which is less than a third of ISU’s cost. That’s hardly Heartland catching up. Tuition is also comparable between HCC and ICC.

    Tuition for a semester at Lincoln College is $8,750 and for a semester at Illinois Wesleyan, it’s $23,717, so Heartland is definitely the most affordable school in the area.

    Your statement “Did you see how many times Declining Enrollment is mentioned every time tuition was increased?” can be answered by the simple fact that tuition was raised because of projected lower enrollment, rather than vice versa. That’s a.) because the slide shows you’re cherry-picking from were made before they had the actual enrollment numbers and b.) because they need to keep tuition revenue at close to the same level each year.

    All colleges and universities do that. If enrollment goes down, tuition has to come up at some point to make up for it. What’s really pricing “kids,” as you put it, out of college is the continued uncertainty of state funding sources and whether or not the MAP grants they’ve earned are actually going to be funded. You can see clearly in their budget reports that instruction is the item getting the most amount of money and which is receiving the most cuts.

    What precisely is the solution that you’re offering?

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      1. They have been cutting expenses, but there’s a limit to how much you can cut and still have a functioning college. Any other service increases cost in the same way. If they’re not getting the funding they were promised, it’s going to have to come from tuition.

        A lot of the shortfall you’re pointing out has to do with lost property tax revenue. Can’t you see even a little bit of irony in complaining about taxes, but then complaining when a public service becomes more expensive out of pocket?

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      2. A new program, huh? They bought a new computer program to support something they were already doing, which increases the value to students on their other two campuses. The press release doesn’t say anything about hiring anyone or them doing anything that wasn’t budgeted for.

        The lifetime income gap between someone with a 2-year degree and someone without one is huge. When you factor in the ability to transfer to any four-year public university in Illinois for a bachelor’s degree, that $10,000 degree would be saving that person at least $20,000.

        That person then has a higher salary, paying higher income tax, and likely higher property tax over the course of their lifetime, making that 2-year degree not only a good investment for them but for the community.

        I know the SSA is an evil government deep state agency, but here are some numbers:

        https://www.ssa.gov/retirementpolicy/research/education-earnings.html

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    1. Here are my posts from the earlier article today… perhaps you will find some “solutions” there? From my past experience with HCC, I can tell you that they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming into actually cutting waste and administrative jobs. They have been adding layers of bureaucracy and non-education programs for years (like all of higher education has done). I once got into an argument with someone out there about a position they had just filled: Director of Student Engagement. Yes, they have a director whose job it is to get student involved in non-education related activities. Do you think they will want to cut that job? No, of course not. There many many more directors and Deans of Paper Clips with staffs and offices that they will resist cutting. They will of course continue to pay teachers and community education instructors really low wages while paying their administrators big bucks. So when they start crying big crocodile tears for money… don’t believe them for a minute that they have cut needless waste… because they haven’t!

      “You see college is not just about education…it’s also about the college ‘experience’… something that is vital for students in our world… student engagement is a wonderful way for students to become involved in non-academic programs and events….this is a vital part of what HCC is about.” And my reply to this: Your fixation on non-academic programs, student amenities and your building of layers of administrative bureaucracy have resulted in you pricing yourself out of your own market while saddling students with mountains of debt. Only when you refocus on your mission (education) and providing paths for your students to affordably and quickly get the skills and knowledge necessary to enter the job market will you be truly fulfilling your mission. All of this requires innovation (something higher education is resistant to). So their inability to innovate will lead to them continuing to lose students and require more and more public money to keep their ship afloat. Sound familiar? Transit Disconnect’s latest innovation was to add more routes…

      Yes and all of the high paid administrators – Deans of Paper Clips and Provosts of Hang Nail’s salaries are being paid by kids and their parents through crazy non-dischargeable massive student loans! I have NO respect for these con men and women… and I refuse to let them tell me that they need this or that amount of money or the “kids” will suffer.

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      1. And to answer Lawrence’s point about “non educational” parts of college, there’s a lot of research out there that shows a positive correlation between involvement and graduation rates, GPA, and future employment.

        https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1013&context=techdirproj

        https://urresearch.rochester.edu/fileDownloadForInstitutionalItem.action?itemId=21755&itemFileId=70323

        http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/la-grange/news/ct-dlg-student-activities-tl-0324-20160317-story.html

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      2. Cool story. I’m sure if we roll education back to the way it was done fifty years ago, that’ll solve everything.

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      3. Yeah, I wonder what caused that. Maybe failed conservative policies that led to a recession, followed by very successful conservative attacks on higher education funding? Maybe the very tea party movement that you were champion for is right at the heart of this issue?

        https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/a-lost-decade-in-higher-education-funding

        Higher education is receiving less funding now than it did before 2008, and you want them to spend even less money on it? How is that even logical?

        And on top of that, need based aid has shrunk, making it even harder for poor people to go to college than it was before.

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  3. This is all complete insanity and it will not last in the 21st Century very long. Expect to see first hundreds of small 4 year colleges close first. Yes this will be like what is happening to retail right now. Next will be large state universities … SIU will be one of the first and then Junior Colleges will begin to close. Higher education does not have a sustainable business model in the new world that we live in. They are 19/20th Century dinosaurs that will soon be in the history books….

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    1. Ok Crimson – now you are telling everyone that you are part of the problem. “research out there that shows a positive correlation between involvement and graduation rates, GPA, and future employment.” Really? And if you get out of school and can’t find a job that will provide you with a decent life and be able to pay your massive student debt, your “engagement” during college is pretty silly right? We have an entire generation of kids who are unable to buy houses and start families because of their massive student debt. Default rates on student loans are right now what, Crimson? https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-looming-student-loan-default-crisis-is-worse-than-we-thought/
      Now you read this and see if your engagement and the associated administrative bureaucracy that goes with it and has to be paid for is worth it?
      I went to college many years ago…. was able to work my way through college with no debt… my engagement was working and studying. I got a good education that I could afford.

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      1. Yes, really. I didn’t even say causation–I said correlation, which the data bears out through many different, disconnected studies, three of which I posted. I don’t know why I bother arguing with you people. There is plenty of data out there on the correlation between engagement and success–including on default rates–but it doesn’t fit with your narrative, so you dismiss it. Students who are more engaged do better in college, stand a better chance of getting through college, and stand a better chance of getting a job with the ability to pay back any loans they may have taken.

        It’s not enough to be a mediocre B student anymore without any activities.

        Back when you went to college, it was possible to work a summer job and earn enough money to pay for tuition for the year. Now that is not possible, because higher ed isn’t being funded, either through public universities or through need and merit based aid. Grants have been replaced by loans. Students have been turned by the government into a profit center.

        Are you actually disputing those facts? Of course you’re not interested in actually engaging in facts because you benefited from the huge expansion in public education in the 60’s and 70’s and got out before the huge funding cuts in the last two decades.

        You can see clearly that private schools are increasing cost at a lower rate than public universities, because private universities depend more on tuition money than public ones do; that’s the whole point of a public university.

        https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2017-09-20/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities

        “In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities have grown the most, increasing 237 percent.” Why would that be happening, one asks? Could it be that public universities are losing funding at a record rate?

        But sure, blame your Dean of Paperclips, as you put it. Administrative bloat is an issue, but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to the funding deficit. I’m sure universities would be happy to give up the administrators you deem unnecessary if you’d actually pay them what you promised.

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  4. Q: How do you give unqualified people jobs who do not deserve those jobs?
    A: You INVENT jobs in Government (Bloomington & Normal), and you INVENT jobs at ISU and HEARTLAND.
    So, unqualified and undeserving democrats move down here to take these invented jobs with obscene salaries, all at the tax payers expense. It’s called wealth redistribution. Those of us in the private sector are forced to subsidize these unqualified and undeserving people who COULD NOT get a job in the private sector.

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  5. I was talking about pre-college private schools. There is a direct relation to loans given to students and how much colleges charge. Tuition skyrocketed when financial aid knew they could get government to pay for whatever they wanted.

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    1. This has been a game higher education has been playing for many years… same goes for loan maximum amounts… the government raises the amount allowed to be borrowed so colleges can jack tuition. All the while, overpaid leeches and con men/women in higher education continue to drain the money from the pockets of the next generation with reckless abandon while they cry for more and more money (Crimson wants to open up Fort Knox to these charlatans for the “kids sake”). There is no amount of money that will ever be enough for higher education and truly preparing our kids to function in a 21st Century economy is really not on their actual to do list. Getting paid lots of money to administer worthless programs and outdated curriculums is what they are really focused on.

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  6. Hey everyone… Crimson actually believes that there has been no Gilding of Higher education (pay no attention to ISU’s Gold’s like gym they build recently) – no dramatic increase over the years of administrative bloat – its just about the government not shoveling enough money into their bank accounts. Now I could be wrong but this sounds like an administrator in higher education with a fancy degree and a 6 figure salary defending his profession. What do you think? Millions of kids in a lifetime of debt and it’s the “conservatives” in government’s fault for not giving them enough money? What a joke… This system is not going to last…. prepare a plan B if you are not close to retirement, Crimson. The bell is tolling for college administrators all across the country.

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    1. I’m actually a student of both institutions with a much better job than you idiots on this blog and am very amused by the fact of how you continue to scramble to explain how “the liberal elite” continues to out pace you.

      I actually hate you and Diane—yes hate—not because you disagree with me but because you represent your position as being the “middle.” You’re too to engage in a real debate because you don’t have think public education should exist at all.

      But that’s ok. You’ll both be leaving soon. Elderly people are like guests soon leaving the restaurant: they shouldn’t be ordering for the table.

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      1. So lets unpack what our boy here Crimson just said. He hates (I guess me and Diane and most everyone here) – He actually hates us for our ideas and opinions. He says we don’t engage in debate but he has never answered any of the very valid factual points that I made (but I refuse to debate). Then he engages in ad hominem attacks on us? And then finishes with telling us he is looking forward to the time when we all die?. This young man is suffering cognitive dissonance and is emotionally lashing out at what is contradictory to his world view and mindset. The truth is impossible for him to accept at this point. Whether or not you believe in God or Karma or whatever, wishing death on people because of their ideas is something that one will have to pay for at some point. Good luck Crimson… you are going to need it in the future…

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      2. Give them enough rope and they will show everyone who and what they really are…. We are seeing the vitriol and hate all the time now from the left. They are saying and sometimes doing horrible things because their world is being shattered by people like us all around the world waking up and saying “no more”. President Trump could cure cancer and prevent a plague and they would still be calling for his impeachment or hoping for his death. Peter Fonda recently said that he hoped that Baron Trump (12 year old son of the president) would get thrown into a cage with a pedophile…. How sick to you have to be to wish this on anyone? And wish is on the president’s 12 year old son? Crimson is not unusual… he is one of millions who have been brainwashed into believing the lies and propaganda from the mainstream media.

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  7. Crimson it’s adorable that you believe government claims and statistics, it’s just not advisable in the real world though unless you want to just keep payin’ da man. Get back to us when you find a conservative that feels like taking on the task of explaining how huge of a factor “waste” is that you have completely ignored on any of your posts here, , , as though it doesn’t exist.

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    1. And honestly? I don’t give a shit whether you people decide to stay stupid, but you’re doing as much as you can possibly do to keep other people from advancing and that’s highly offensive.

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      1. Lol, 12:40am? Just get back from bein’ out drinkin’ with your buddy Tari? A bit aggressive and pissy I’d say. And honestly? You just completely blew it with that attitude. Typical lib response. No surprise. However to show you how much I really do care, and to help you advance you can toss away the chains of snowflake-dom, by adopting the following old cliche that I was taught as a young child, “sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” No offense, but I’d say your your inner self could use a little guidance and encouragement to save you from embarrassing yourself via temper tantrums when trying to hang any with adults in the room. Good luck.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Yes this is like a child stomping his feet and screaming, I hate you and I can hardly wait until you die….. Of course none of our kids would have done that because we raised our kids to be respectful and dignified.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. When I went to ICC, it was about $30 a semester hour. Bradley was around $300 a semester hour. Paid less for my education after adjusted for inflation. I feel sorry for those throwing away money on Renner’s crappie class.

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  9. A long long time ago Heartland used to be an “affordable ” alternative to ISU. Now that they have Terri Renner syndrome, Heartland is now an unaffordable alternative to ISU, unless of course you are illegal then here in IL you get a free ride on the taxpayers dollar!

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  10. Crimson drank too much kool-aid and fell out of the ivory tower. ouch.
    Universities have gone from institutions of learning and research to indoctrination centers and research to support socialism.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. An old girlfriend of mine had a friend, whose husband had HER paying a “modest” part of his tuition at a midwest college. He NEVER signed up or ATTENDED a class! Instead he used the money for gas, xerox copies of articles, lunch, etc and spent his WHOLE time in the library reading various books! When she found out , she wasn’t happy, but guess what? He was ABLE to teach himself and now has a VERY GOOD job with a fortune 500 company-WHY? Because he has self motivation and can learn ON HIS OWN! As for a director of “student involvement” WHAT the heck is that? Here use this color sharpie for your protest poster??
    College IS what YOU make it! Heck, I was in photography club, physics club, German club, etc. They were ALL a good extra of the “student life” and educational also..

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      1. Yes very nice pictures of HCC’s fitness center – My college didn’t have a fitness center… I didn’t need a fitness center…. I was working and going to school…. I lived in the dorms…. didn’t have a car…. I got out with no debt and went to work providing for myself. I was engaged in school and work…

        Liked by 1 person

    1. Excellent point and it highlights to what is actually happening today… 4 years at college or going online and learning what you need in 6 months to get a job. Higher education no longer controls all the keys to education, information and a good job.

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  12. I NEEDED a P.E. elective to graduate and I remember my father about blowing a head gasket when he looked at my schedule and says “You’re taking billiards? Why the He** you taking Billiards?? I replied because “GOLF WAS FULL”! GOLF?? You’re there to study not ride around and drink beer.. That took a while to explain, all the time he’s shaking his head..

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  13. I was going to play devil’s advocate because while HCC does overtax and overspend, the increases didn’t seem Overly out of line – a compounded annual increase not too far over 3%. But just to make sure I wasn’t going to make myself look foolish in the process, I compared it to actual inflation, and HCC costs are indeed going up at more than twice the rate of inflation.
    Getting rid of the snowflake benefits would be a double win for HCC – lower the cost to the students (and taxpayers?) and better prepare the students for real life, where not everything revolves around their dainty personal feelings.

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      1. Higher education currently has two problems #1 They have priced themselves out of a market that they once had complete dominance of. #2 They are being disrupted by technology and technology’s ability to bring information and education to people without brick and mortar buildings and rigid curriculum’s. Higher education in it’s current form is a walking zombie that believes it has a future when it is actually dead.

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      2. Exactly – sorry if I was not clear. You documented HCC cost increases to students of a little over 3.6% annually over that time frame, when general inflation was only roughly half that.

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  14. Lawrence you bring up a VERY GOOD point! I collect old photos and such and the internet (if you are GOOD at using it) is WAY better then the library of congress in your basement-LIKE those guys ever read a book!
    IF I would have had the internet WHEN I was in school, It would have made my life SO DAMN EASY that I could have skipped every class and STILL been an exceptional student! It’s the GREATEST research tool EVER to come also!
    And YES I use it ALL the time and KNOW how to find what I’m looking for…
    It’s just HARD to believe that ANYONE could NOT pass a class anymore with computer access!

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Is Colleen Reynolds still being a politician for Heartland Community College. Maybe they could save a little money by getting rid of her and her expensive ideas.

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  16. A lot of misinformation posted here. Your “no frills” tech school education cost over 21,000 a year. That includes government funding. Almost everyone commenting here is living in 1972 as far as their ideas about college education.
    .
    One Commmentor friend funded a college slacker. Lovely. Other commentators insist that you can Google an education. Yeah sure, try getting a job with no degree and telling an employer you can Google things. Pure fantasy.

    The for profit college education is filled with fraud, worthless certifications and degrees. This seems to be the model you people want. The anti high education trope is at the core of this post. Today you can’t get good jobs without some college education. At 10,000 dollars, community college is still affordable. We in this country have a job skills disconnect, a education with only a high school degree will only get you a minimum wage job. I guess that what commentators here are aiming for in their lives.

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    1. Misinformation? “At 10,000 dollars, community college is still affordable”??? No one here is proposing eliminating post high school education…. “The for profit college education is filled with fraud, worthless certifications and degrees. This seems to be the model you people want.” Why are you making false statements about what everyone has been saying here? This is Gaslighting…. and you know it. We have a higher education system that is overpriced, filled with waste and administrative bureaucracy and is not preparing kids for a 21st Century job market. Take your Gaslighting somewhere else please – we all see right through it…

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    2. I’m gaslighting? Gee, anything you disagree with is gaslighting. The trade schools you’re talking about are run usually by unions, those organizations you hate. You Lawrence, aren’t talking about for profit colleges, but Community College which are not “for profit”,.
      Schools like Lincoln Tech, Devry University are for profit colleges which have repeatedly investigated for fraud, worthless certifications and for inflating the job rates of their graduates. Those colleges are very expensive and have also been investigated for misusing rhe GI Bill, leaving veterans with useless degrees and deeply in debt. Yes, at 10,000 dollars a year Community College is a bargain.

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      1. Hate unions? Maybe government unions because nobody is representing taxpayers in negotiations. And prevailing wage crap so they don’t have to complete! Ever need your plumbing fixed, some union trained them even if they quit the union after graduation. What’s to hate about that? Every for profit school is bad? Try again. My son graduated from IIT, private school. That expense was worth it because the first year his salary paid for 4 years of tuition. Depends on the school and what you major in.

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      2. Please Mr. Gaslighter could you provide evidence from any of the comments made by me or anyone else besides you that there was ANY mention of For profit educational institutions? Please? No one here was talking about this… No one… get it… no one… most of these places are bigger rip offs than regular colleges…. we all know that – did you look at my list of non-academic positions at HCC? Is there not some waste there? Everyone who has been active in this thread (except for you and Crazy Crimson) want education that is sensible and affordable and prepares kids for a 21st Century economy. There is no evidence that anyone in this thread has talked about for profit colleges taking over for what we have now? Evidence please? Or please go away…because you are a gaslighter.

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  17. Everyone notice here that we have two great examples of the forms of attack from the establishment people here: #1 Crimson with his ranting emotionally based personal attacks on us because we dared make him think about his mindset and worldview #2 New Berlin Gaslighting by deliberately lying about what everyone (except Crazy Crimson) have been saying to question our memory. He is using misdirection and contradiction, in an attempt to destabilize us and delegitimize our beliefs.

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  18. In my many years of person to person and online debating… I must say that the establishment so-called “smart people here” are intellectually pathetic and completely devoid of the skills necessary to put together solid reasoned arguments to back up their assertions or opinions. They are weak and not used to being challenged on anything they say or do. They usually have not thought out or researched anything and are quick to gaslight or demean anyone who challenges them. We have a group of establishment elites here who no one should respect or listen to.

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  19. OK everyone… I went through HCC’s website and pulled the names and the titles of the people who work there not directly involving teaching. I left out maintenance people, child care workers and cooks as well as all the actual instructors. I don’t know how many positions we have here (you can count them if you like) – I will let you be the judge of whether or not all of these jobs are necessary and/or vital for our kids education.
    Cindy Alfano
    Director of Records
    Wendy Anderson
    Coordinator of Software Support Services
    Dawn Berry
    Division Secretary – Student Success
    Tim Bill
    Executive Director of Marketing and Public Information
    Staci Blakney-Roberts
    Program Coordinator for Financial Aid
    Scott Bolbock
    Coordinator of Continuing Education Marketing and Communications
    Terrance Bond
    Associate Director of Equity, Compliance and Title IX
    Sarah Brennan
    Coordinator of Employee Recruitment
    Todd Brereton
    Instructional Chair – Social Sciences
    Scott Bross
    Chief Information Officer
    Lauren Bruggenthies-Lott
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Jennifer Caldwell-Edwards
    Secretary – Student Engagement
    Sadie Carlock-Short
    Associate Director of PeopleSoft Applications
    Debbie Carney
    Admissions Asssistant
    Angie Carson
    Secretary
    Angie Castleman
    Coordinator of Payroll Services
    Debra Centofonti
    Credential Analyst
    Debbie Chiaventone
    Program Assistant for Liberal Arts and Social Sciences
    John Chow
    Director of Network and System Administration
    Lydia Cochran
    Manager of IT Training and Software Services
    Valerie Conrady
    Coordinator of Adult and Continuing Education, Lincoln
    Rachel Cook
    Associate Director of Advisement and Assessment
    Angela Coughlin
    Director of Community Education
    Nancy Cox
    Division Secretary – Information Technology
    Valerie Crawford
    Director of Administrative Services
    Jennifer Crones
    Coordinator of Tutoring Services
    Jessica Davis
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Logistics and Implementation
    Sarah Dean
    Academic Advisor II
    Enrollment Services
    Shelby DeMarb
    Financial Aid Assistant
    Sarah Diel-Hunt
    Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs
    Christopher Downing
    Executive Director of Development/Executive Director of Foundation
    Nathan Eaton
    Program Assistant for Financial Aid
    Kelsi Edwards
    Secretary – Lincoln Center
    Lindsay Eickhorst
    Director of Enrollment Services
    Jesse Estrada
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Chris Evans
    Network Administrator II
    Susan Evens
    Flight Director
    Melissa Fasig
    Director of Development
    Steve Fast
    Associate Director of Public Information
    Adam Fisher
    System Analyst I
    Jennifer Flaig
    Senior Research Analyst
    Anjanel Folkens
    Director of Creative Design Services
    Kori Folkerts
    Coordinator of Disability Support Services
    Jimmy Frankos
    Assistant Baseball Coach
    Faye Freeman-Smith
    Director of Student Counseling
    Monica Fuller
    Division Secretary – Nursing
    Brian Furlong
    Head Baseball Coach
    Krista Gaff
    Foundation Records Assistant
    Keith Gehrand
    Safety and Emergency Services Analyst
    Kelli Gibbons
    Program Assistant
    Robert Gibson
    Web Site Manager
    Laura Giffin
    Associate Director of Curriculum and Instruction
    Laura Giffin
    Associate Director of Curriculum and Instruction
    Darcia Gillan
    Division Secretary – Health and Human Services
    Barbara Glover
    Program Assistant for Disability Support Services
    Rodger Graves
    Assistant Softball Coach
    Daniel Hagberg
    Executive Director of Institutional Research
    Carol Hahn
    Instructional Chair – Humanities
    Jill Harter
    Information Services Librarian
    Cindy Herr
    Business Office Assistant
    Kelli Hill
    Vice President of Continuing Education and Advancement
    Chad Hoffer
    Academic Advisor II
    Lori Hoffman
    Associate Director of Math Success Center
    Sandra Hoffmann
    Coordinator of Adult Education Student Support
    James Hubbard
    Executive Director of Facilities
    Karen Huber
    Program Assistant for ICISP
    Travis Huber
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Research and Effectiveness
    Karla Huffman
    Instructor of Communication and New Media
    Amy Humphreys
    Dean of Continuing Education
    Amy Humphreys
    Dean of Continuing Education
    Matthew James
    Assistant Baseball Coach
    Casey Jefferson
    Assistant Softball Coach
    Abby Johnson
    Program Assistant for Adult Education
    Crystal Johnson
    Program Assistant
    Gloria Johnson
    Evening Receptionist – Enrollment Services
    Wendy Johnson
    Accounts Payable Assistant
    Amanda Jones
    Facilities Clerk
    Jeanette Kavanaugh
    Production Assistant – Marketing and Public Information
    Jennie Kearney
    Coordinator of Registration
    Kimberly Kelley
    Director of Student Success
    Sherri Kelson
    Secretary – Business Office
    Ty Kessinger
    Fixed Asset/Receiving Clerk
    Jennifer L. Kirby
    Advisor II/Recruiter
    Jeremy Kirkpatrick
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Bill Klaege
    IT Applications Analyst
    Kimberly Klingbeil
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Ryan Knox
    Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics
    Brian Lambert
    Associate Director of Student Recruitment, Admissions and Testing Center
    Linda Lambert
    Associate Director of Business Technology Learning Center
    Kathy Lane
    Division Secretary – Facilities
    Barbara Leathers
    Executive Director of Human Resources
    Gavin Lee
    Associate Director of International Programs
    Steve Leverton
    Head Softball Coach
    Lindsey Litwiller
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Sharon Mackinson
    Secretary – Pontiac Center
    Laura Mai
    Executive Assistant
    Lukas Manieri
    Assistant Women’s Soccer Coach
    Gayle Marckx
    Advisor II/Recruiter
    Shelley Marquis
    Director of Payroll and Student Accounts
    Hannah Mathes
    Program Assistant
    Tom McCulley
    Interim Dean – Liberal Arts and Social Sciences
    Sean McCullough
    Digital and Graphic Designer
    Sharon McDonald
    Controller
    Kathy McGrane
    Academic Advisor II
    Larissa McIlvain
    Associate Director of Foundation Relations and Events
    Jan McKay
    TRIO Student Support Services Assistant
    Bridget Miller
    Associate Director of Accounting Services
    Emily Miller
    Academic Advisor II
    Jane Miller
    Dean of Health and Human Services
    Douglas Minter
    Vice President of Business Services
    Terri Minter
    Program Assistant for Administrative Services
    Laurie Mueller
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Jason Nelson
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Christina Norton
    Information Services Librarian
    Jennifer O’Connor
    Interim Instructional Chair – Allied Health
    Kelly Odum
    Program Assistant for Admissions
    Laura Ohrwall
    Accounting Assistant
    Meghan Ortiz
    Program Assistant for Child Development Lab
    Richard Pearce
    Vice President for Learning and Student Success
    Brittany Perkins
    Secretary – Adult Education
    Cathy Phelps
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Cathy Phelps
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Amanda Rambo
    Coordinator of Admissions
    Tiara Randle
    Coordinator of TRIO Academic and Retention Services
    Hannah Renner
    Coordinator of Employee Benefits
    Colleen Reynolds
    Director of College Engagement
    Raegan Rinchiuso
    Coordinator of Marketing
    Karen Roesch
    Records Assistant
    Margie Rosenbloom
    Testing Facilitator
    Tanner Rutledge
    Assistant Men’s Soccer Coach
    Ahmet Safak
    System Administrator IV
    Khrystyna Sanborn
    Coordinator of Adult Education Instruction
    Wanda Sanders
    Data Entry Assistant
    Lance Savage
    Web & Media Technologist
    Ali Seys
    Assistant Women’s Soccer Coach
    Ann Schick
    Academic Advisor III
    Claron Sharrieff
    Admissions Assistant
    Robert Shaw
    Dean of STEM and Business
    Lauren Sheley
    Coordinator of Facilities Use
    Padriac Shinville
    Dean of Enrollment Services
    Steven Showers
    Mail Services/Materials Management Clerk
    Stacey Shrewsbury
    Lead Flight Director
    Lisa Sleevar
    Associate Director of Academic Scheduling and Curriculum Processes
    Scot Smigel
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Outreach and Engagement
    Amy Smith
    Research Analyst
    Kay Southey
    Program Assistant for Enrollment Services
    Peggy Spaugh
    Secretary – Human Resources
    Camille Springer
    Licensed Counselor
    Audrey Stickrod
    Graphic Designer and Coordinator of Photography
    Rachelle Stivers
    Director of Library and Information Services
    Ben Stone
    Coordinator of Student Recruitment
    Meg Struve
    Division Secretary
    Shelby Sweeney
    Coordinator of Employment and Compensation
    Pamela Sweetwood
    Director of TRIO Student Support Services
    Linda Tesdal
    Associate Director of Heartland Pontiac Center
    Luke Thierry
    Coordinator of Records
    Jonathan Titzel
    Head Men’s Soccer Coach
    John Todd
    Associate Director of Institutional Projects
    Libby Torbeck
    Flight Director
    Sarah Ubbenga
    Head Women’s Soccer Coach
    Kerry Urquizo
    Director of Adult Education
    Traci Van Prooyen
    Director of Online Learning and Instructional Technologies
    Jennifer Vieley
    Coordinator for General Studies
    Jill Voyles
    Technical Process Analyst
    Lucas Warren
    Program Coordinator
    Sara Westendorf
    Secretary – STEM and Business
    Ashley Westerhold
    Coordinator of Financial Aid and Veterans Affairs
    Bryn Westerhold
    Secretary – Academic Affairs
    Kathy Wetter
    Division Secretary
    Laura Whittaker
    Testing Facilitator
    Robert Widmer
    President
    Kim Wietfeldt
    Academic Advisor II
    Jon Willoughby
    Manager of IT Client Support Services
    Ian Wilson
    Director of Student Engagement
    Luke Wing
    Associate Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics
    Doris Zehr
    Division Secretary – Continuing Education
    Erin Zimmerman
    Library Technical Assistant

    Liked by 1 person

  20. I’m talking about For profit schools, which any Community Colleges are diffinitly not for profit corporate schools . Again if I’m disagreeing with you I’m “gaslighting” you or lying? Really? Excuse me, do some research on all the for profit corporate schools, they do not have the best reputations. From Lincoln Tech to Capella, even The University of Phoenix have dodgy reputations complete with fraud, and worthless degrees and certifications. They draw in veterans and people desperate for education. These places leave people in debt and not with a degree worth anything.

    It’s nice that your son could get into a good private school. Not everyone is so lucky. Some people have to go to community colleges. Putting down these schools serves no one.

    Like

  21. BTW Illinois Institute of Technology tuition is over 45,000 dollars a year. How affordable is that? What kind of money would you have to be making? Maybe Lawrence would like to post how many people work for IIT.

    Like

      1. Best not to get draw into what this establishment Gaslighter is doing… you see first he never provided evidence that we were talking about replacing public higher education and then he redirected the argument to sidetrack the debate about how inefficient and out of date HCC is. He is highly invested in establishment higher education. Lets look again at the definition of gaslighting … he is a classic case… Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target’s belief. He is most likely drawing a large salary from exploiting young people into believing that what they get at HCC is worth the thousands of dollars they are spending. Just imagine the money that has to be spent to pay the people on the HCC list I posted? Students are paying their salaries. This establishment shill is not worth anymore of my time… he is an example of what we are fighting..

        Liked by 1 person

      2. So you used loans and grants secured by the government to get your son through an expensive college. Fine. I thought the government was evil and couldn’t do anything right. That’s been your mantra on this blog from the beginning. When it suits your purposes, suddenly unions are fine and government secured grants and loans are O.K. I guess consistency is for other people.

        As far as Lawrence, please, your definition of gaslighting is comical. Word salads are word salads. You still make are no sense, writing long drawn out diatribes isn’t logical or even readable.

        Lawrence, the model of Community College are not inefficient. You, have not supplied any real evidence that they are out of date, just your opinion, an opinion based on no real data. People are still going to brick and mortar colleges and community colleges. They will not stop just because you say they’re out of date.

        I used the other model of corporate colleges or for profit colleges as an example when private corporations take over higher education. It’s not pretty. Capella, your online example has the lowest rate of students that graduate. They drop out in frustration because the lack of real trained professors and scams run by corporation that’s a money machine. They end up owing money and are deeply in debt with nothing to show for their trouble and time trying to get a degree. Is that the model you guys want? Students getting rip off by predator corporations that take government secured loans and grants with no oversight? Again do some research.

        Like

      3. Go away Gaslighter – We are talking about HCC inefficiency and waste nothing else…. Get your plan B out because higher ed is being disrupted and your job is going away.

        Like

  22. So now that the Gaslighter from HCC Admin is no longer with us (I am not reading anything else the shill says) lets talk about what is really happening with HCC. Lets take a look at this list again:

    Cindy Alfano
    Director of Records
    Wendy Anderson
    Coordinator of Software Support Services
    Dawn Berry
    Division Secretary – Student Success
    Tim Bill
    Executive Director of Marketing and Public Information
    Staci Blakney-Roberts
    Program Coordinator for Financial Aid
    Scott Bolbock
    Coordinator of Continuing Education Marketing and Communications
    Terrance Bond
    Associate Director of Equity, Compliance and Title IX
    Sarah Brennan
    Coordinator of Employee Recruitment
    Todd Brereton
    Instructional Chair – Social Sciences
    Scott Bross
    Chief Information Officer
    Lauren Bruggenthies-Lott
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Jennifer Caldwell-Edwards
    Secretary – Student Engagement
    Sadie Carlock-Short
    Associate Director of PeopleSoft Applications
    Debbie Carney
    Admissions Asssistant
    Angie Carson
    Secretary
    Angie Castleman
    Coordinator of Payroll Services
    Debra Centofonti
    Credential Analyst
    Debbie Chiaventone
    Program Assistant for Liberal Arts and Social Sciences
    John Chow
    Director of Network and System Administration
    Lydia Cochran
    Manager of IT Training and Software Services
    Valerie Conrady
    Coordinator of Adult and Continuing Education, Lincoln
    Rachel Cook
    Associate Director of Advisement and Assessment
    Angela Coughlin
    Director of Community Education
    Nancy Cox
    Division Secretary – Information Technology
    Valerie Crawford
    Director of Administrative Services
    Jennifer Crones
    Coordinator of Tutoring Services
    Jessica Davis
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Logistics and Implementation
    Sarah Dean
    Academic Advisor II
    Enrollment Services
    Shelby DeMarb
    Financial Aid Assistant
    Sarah Diel-Hunt
    Associate Vice President for Academic Affairs
    Christopher Downing
    Executive Director of Development/Executive Director of Foundation
    Nathan Eaton
    Program Assistant for Financial Aid
    Kelsi Edwards
    Secretary – Lincoln Center
    Lindsay Eickhorst
    Director of Enrollment Services
    Jesse Estrada
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Chris Evans
    Network Administrator II
    Susan Evens
    Flight Director
    Melissa Fasig
    Director of Development
    Steve Fast
    Associate Director of Public Information
    Adam Fisher
    System Analyst I
    Jennifer Flaig
    Senior Research Analyst
    Anjanel Folkens
    Director of Creative Design Services
    Kori Folkerts
    Coordinator of Disability Support Services
    Jimmy Frankos
    Assistant Baseball Coach
    Faye Freeman-Smith
    Director of Student Counseling
    Monica Fuller
    Division Secretary – Nursing
    Brian Furlong
    Head Baseball Coach
    Krista Gaff
    Foundation Records Assistant
    Keith Gehrand
    Safety and Emergency Services Analyst
    Kelli Gibbons
    Program Assistant
    Robert Gibson
    Web Site Manager
    Laura Giffin
    Associate Director of Curriculum and Instruction
    Laura Giffin
    Associate Director of Curriculum and Instruction
    Darcia Gillan
    Division Secretary – Health and Human Services
    Barbara Glover
    Program Assistant for Disability Support Services
    Rodger Graves
    Assistant Softball Coach
    Daniel Hagberg
    Executive Director of Institutional Research
    Carol Hahn
    Instructional Chair – Humanities
    Jill Harter
    Information Services Librarian
    Cindy Herr
    Business Office Assistant
    Kelli Hill
    Vice President of Continuing Education and Advancement
    Chad Hoffer
    Academic Advisor II
    Lori Hoffman
    Associate Director of Math Success Center
    Sandra Hoffmann
    Coordinator of Adult Education Student Support
    James Hubbard
    Executive Director of Facilities
    Karen Huber
    Program Assistant for ICISP
    Travis Huber
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Research and Effectiveness
    Karla Huffman
    Instructor of Communication and New Media
    Amy Humphreys
    Dean of Continuing Education
    Amy Humphreys
    Dean of Continuing Education
    Matthew James
    Assistant Baseball Coach
    Casey Jefferson
    Assistant Softball Coach
    Abby Johnson
    Program Assistant for Adult Education
    Crystal Johnson
    Program Assistant
    Gloria Johnson
    Evening Receptionist – Enrollment Services
    Wendy Johnson
    Accounts Payable Assistant
    Amanda Jones
    Facilities Clerk
    Jeanette Kavanaugh
    Production Assistant – Marketing and Public Information
    Jennie Kearney
    Coordinator of Registration
    Kimberly Kelley
    Director of Student Success
    Sherri Kelson
    Secretary – Business Office
    Ty Kessinger
    Fixed Asset/Receiving Clerk
    Jennifer L. Kirby
    Advisor II/Recruiter
    Jeremy Kirkpatrick
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Bill Klaege
    IT Applications Analyst
    Kimberly Klingbeil
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Ryan Knox
    Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics
    Brian Lambert
    Associate Director of Student Recruitment, Admissions and Testing Center
    Linda Lambert
    Associate Director of Business Technology Learning Center
    Kathy Lane
    Division Secretary – Facilities
    Barbara Leathers
    Executive Director of Human Resources
    Gavin Lee
    Associate Director of International Programs
    Steve Leverton
    Head Softball Coach
    Lindsey Litwiller
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Sharon Mackinson
    Secretary – Pontiac Center
    Laura Mai
    Executive Assistant
    Lukas Manieri
    Assistant Women’s Soccer Coach
    Gayle Marckx
    Advisor II/Recruiter
    Shelley Marquis
    Director of Payroll and Student Accounts
    Hannah Mathes
    Program Assistant
    Tom McCulley
    Interim Dean – Liberal Arts and Social Sciences
    Sean McCullough
    Digital and Graphic Designer
    Sharon McDonald
    Controller
    Kathy McGrane
    Academic Advisor II
    Larissa McIlvain
    Associate Director of Foundation Relations and Events
    Jan McKay
    TRIO Student Support Services Assistant
    Bridget Miller
    Associate Director of Accounting Services
    Emily Miller
    Academic Advisor II
    Jane Miller
    Dean of Health and Human Services
    Douglas Minter
    Vice President of Business Services
    Terri Minter
    Program Assistant for Administrative Services
    Laurie Mueller
    Program Coordinator for Continuing Education
    Jason Nelson
    Technology Support Services Technician
    Christina Norton
    Information Services Librarian
    Jennifer O’Connor
    Interim Instructional Chair – Allied Health
    Kelly Odum
    Program Assistant for Admissions
    Laura Ohrwall
    Accounting Assistant
    Meghan Ortiz
    Program Assistant for Child Development Lab
    Richard Pearce
    Vice President for Learning and Student Success
    Brittany Perkins
    Secretary – Adult Education
    Cathy Phelps
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Cathy Phelps
    Registration and Records Assistant
    Amanda Rambo
    Coordinator of Admissions
    Tiara Randle
    Coordinator of TRIO Academic and Retention Services
    Hannah Renner
    Coordinator of Employee Benefits
    Colleen Reynolds
    Director of College Engagement
    Raegan Rinchiuso
    Coordinator of Marketing
    Karen Roesch
    Records Assistant
    Margie Rosenbloom
    Testing Facilitator
    Tanner Rutledge
    Assistant Men’s Soccer Coach
    Ahmet Safak
    System Administrator IV
    Khrystyna Sanborn
    Coordinator of Adult Education Instruction
    Wanda Sanders
    Data Entry Assistant
    Lance Savage
    Web & Media Technologist
    Ali Seys
    Assistant Women’s Soccer Coach
    Ann Schick
    Academic Advisor III
    Claron Sharrieff
    Admissions Assistant
    Robert Shaw
    Dean of STEM and Business
    Lauren Sheley
    Coordinator of Facilities Use
    Padriac Shinville
    Dean of Enrollment Services
    Steven Showers
    Mail Services/Materials Management Clerk
    Stacey Shrewsbury
    Lead Flight Director
    Lisa Sleevar
    Associate Director of Academic Scheduling and Curriculum Processes
    Scot Smigel
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Outreach and Engagement
    Amy Smith
    Research Analyst
    Kay Southey
    Program Assistant for Enrollment Services
    Peggy Spaugh
    Secretary – Human Resources
    Camille Springer
    Licensed Counselor
    Audrey Stickrod
    Graphic Designer and Coordinator of Photography
    Rachelle Stivers
    Director of Library and Information Services
    Ben Stone
    Coordinator of Student Recruitment
    Meg Struve
    Division Secretary
    Shelby Sweeney
    Coordinator of Employment and Compensation
    Pamela Sweetwood
    Director of TRIO Student Support Services
    Linda Tesdal
    Associate Director of Heartland Pontiac Center
    Luke Thierry
    Coordinator of Records
    Jonathan Titzel
    Head Men’s Soccer Coach
    John Todd
    Associate Director of Institutional Projects
    Libby Torbeck
    Flight Director
    Sarah Ubbenga
    Head Women’s Soccer Coach
    Kerry Urquizo
    Director of Adult Education
    Traci Van Prooyen
    Director of Online Learning and Instructional Technologies
    Jennifer Vieley
    Coordinator for General Studies
    Jill Voyles
    Technical Process Analyst
    Lucas Warren
    Program Coordinator
    Sara Westendorf
    Secretary – STEM and Business
    Ashley Westerhold
    Coordinator of Financial Aid and Veterans Affairs
    Bryn Westerhold
    Secretary – Academic Affairs
    Kathy Wetter
    Division Secretary
    Laura Whittaker
    Testing Facilitator
    Robert Widmer
    President
    Kim Wietfeldt
    Academic Advisor II
    Jon Willoughby
    Manager of IT Client Support Services
    Ian Wilson
    Director of Student Engagement
    Luke Wing
    Associate Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics
    Doris Zehr
    Division Secretary – Continuing Education
    Erin Zimmerman
    Library Technical Assistant

    Is it not unbelievable how many of these jobs would not exist anywhere in the real world except in a higher education setting?

    Associate Director of Institutional Projects?
    Director of TRIO Student Support Services?
    Director of Student Engagement?
    Coordinator of Employment and Compensation?
    Associate Director of Academic Scheduling and Curriculum Processes?
    Associate Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics?
    Coordinator of Student Recruitment?
    Associate Director of Academic Scheduling and Curriculum Processes?
    Director of College Engagement?
    Coordinator of Adult Education Instruction?
    Associate Director of Foundation Relations and Events?
    Coordinator of TRIO Academic and Retention Services?
    Director of Fitness and Recreation Center and Athletics?
    Interim Dean – Liberal Arts and Social Sciences?
    Dean of Continuing Education?
    Coordinator of Continuing Education Marketing and Communications?
    Interim Instructional Chair – Allied Health?
    Associate Director of Continuing Education Research and Effectiveness?
    Coordinator of Financial Aid and Veterans Affairs?
    Associate Director of International Programs?
    Coordinator of Admissions?

    There are many more of course. These are all full time jobs with benefits, offices and most likely many have staffs. What exactly do all these people do and why did college’s do a good job of educating our kids without them in the past? It is very apparent from looking at this list that this is a run away bureaucracy that has been able to grow and expand without regard to actual need or the cost. What you see is bureaucratic fiefdoms that have been built and expanded over the years by administrators without regard for anything but their own salaries and status. So when the crocodile tears come out to fund this nightmare-like bureaucracy of waste and silliness and they throw out the “it’s hurting our kid’s future” card… think about this list of overpaid administrative people doing next to nothing everyday at the kids’ and taxpayers’ expense.

    Like

    1. Sorry, but I’m a cynic on Both sides – New Berlin makes a semi-valid point that the community college model is not inefficient, however the implicit point of Most people here is that HCC is straying further and further from that model as it adds things so it can ‘duplicate the college experience’.
      I didn’t take the time to look through Lawrence’s long list, but from the short list (assuming no redundancy from the long list) I only saw 8 candidates for immediate cuts. Granted, that *is* 8 more than it should be, but it’s also not as bad as it’s made out to be.

      Like

      1. With all due respect… it is your opinion that only 8 of these positions are unnecessary. This entire educational model is obsolete and most of these positions are also obsolete and unnecessary. Higher education is being disrupted as I write this…. soon hundreds of small 4 year colleges will close. Look at what is happening right now at SIU….that is the future of ISU in a couple years. Who would have thought that thousands of retail stores would close, right? The same thing is going to happen to colleges. In the future the buildings that housed our educational institutions will be museums and curiosities to a past education system. The tour guide remarks, “Yes they would actually gather people into what they called ‘classrooms’ to listen to a teacher talk to them” The higher education system is going to changed dramatically in the very near future. Sky high tuition, massive student debt, inefficiencies and technological disruption are all working to destroy this 19/20th Century education model.

        Like

  23. Scholarships? Wow, who’s elitist now. Most students don’t have accesss to scholarships. You seem to left out that IIT is funded by the Pritzker money. JB Pritzker anyone?

    Gaslight was a movie. That you seem to use that term to put down anyone who disagrees with you says more about you than me. As Crisom said, arguing with you is pointless, you have closed inds.

    Like

  24. One more comment on New Berlin – I see that he thinks Gaslighting is a movie. If there is a movie named Gaslighting… OK… but I had to laugh when I saw he said that! He apparently believes that I am calling him a movie? LOL This is almost so dumb and I find it hard to believe that anyone would write this? In the public forum? I have posted the definition of gaslighting in this publication numerous times… everyone knows what I am talking about…except for our rocket scientist New Berlin… LOL…. you can’t make this stuff up… it’s a sitcom in the making..

    Like

    1. Apologies for once again respectfully disagreeing. The various lefties/establishmental cases / etc don’t seem to me to be gaslighting. Gaslighting seems to imply a reasonable possibility that you will doubt your own sanity or faculties, and those seem pretty stable. I would say they are more engaging in one or more of ad hominem, straw man, and misdirection. (I’m not well versed in the various fallacies, so I’m certainly open to being corrected on specifics.) You seem to be very attached to the term and/or definition and thus over-applying it. On a general level, you are Very correct that lefties almost never argue the merits on any given issue because that’s usually a sure way for them to lose, but ‘gaslighting’ is only rarely their tactic of choice…

      Like

      1. We see it all the time from the establishment people here… take it from someone with decades of debating experience – I can identify it almost instantly and can give detailed analysis of why it is gaslighting. Gaslighting is really all they usually have. Defend the Transit Disconnect with common sense or logic… not possible… using various gaslighting techniques is all they have. And then off course their are the ranting “I hate you and I hope you die” folks… The IQ level of the establishment people here is amazingly low… this New Berlin establishment guy thinks I am calling him a movie for god’s sake. Gaslight is a movie he says… OMG – dumb as a box of hammers. You can’t debate this sort of stupidity…

        Like

  25. So what’s going on here is a “do what I say not what I do”. Ms. Benjamin had no problem sending her son to a school funded and endowed by billionaires and millionaires. How many regular students have the access to scholarships? A some high school graduates may receive scholarships based on either need or merit. It takes some work? What, do scholarships make college free? No. The two scholarship I got certain didn’t cover a lot of things like books and fees during my college years. In fact the scholarship I got covered only one year…so I had to take out a loan for the last year.

    Lawrence believes that colleges should disappear, they are obsolete.

    Well with technology becoming more and more complex, a high school degrees ares not enough to succeed in this economy. People now need at least some college. That includes those who go through trade schools, two years of college is a good idea so your education is rounded

    When state government cut spending so that state colleges have debt, the students lose out, not people here bloviating on this forum

    And yes, Lawrence Gaslight was a 1944 movie staring Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergen with a young Angela Lansbury, Look it up. Not everyone who disagrees with you is “gaslighing” you, they are disagreeing with you. If you can’t handle that, then I’m sorry for you. Do cover you ears and go La,la, la? Geez.

    Like

  26. Facts about scholarships: The most prestigious, competitive, highly ranked colleges do not provide any merit-based scholarships. Outside scholarships can affect financial aid. The biggest source of scholarships will come from a college. So yes apparently those billionaires financed your son.

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    1. So you like pretending that people who disagree with you made really stupid arguments and you argue against those instead of what they really say. Got it. You like being smart, but you’ll settle for feeling smart.

      Like

      1. He thinks Gaslighting is a movie…. So he not the sharpest knife in the drawer… He is a classic Gaslighter…. it is all he has… and veiled personal attacks….

        Like

  27. Again Lawrence, Google is your friend, Gaslight was a 1944 movie starring Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman with Angela Lansbury. That’s were the term gaslighting comes from, misuse the term any way you guys want. Apparently making things up out of pure cloth about me is part of the game on this blog. Making it a paranoid excuse to attack me is bizarre to say the least.

    It appears that you can’t take any criticism. The fact is that a college education is very important, as witness by the blogger’s son education at an expense private university. Community colleges are also important, since they give a mixture of education and community continuing education. Older adults can take classes to enrich their lives. Perhaps that’s what Lawrence needs…

    Like

    1. Here you… my god you are just unbelievable:

      Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target’s belief.

      Like

    2. People who gaslight typically use the following techniques:

      1. They tell blatant lies.

      You know it’s an outright lie. Yet they are telling you this lie with a straight face. Why are they so blatant? Because they’re setting up a precedent. Once they tell you a huge lie, you’re not sure if anything they say is true. Keeping you unsteady and off-kilter is the goal.

      2. They deny they ever said something, even though you have proof.

      You know they said they would do something; you know you heard it. But they out and out deny it. It makes you start questioning your reality—maybe they never said that thing. And the more they do this, the more you question your reality and start accepting theirs.

      3. They use what is near and dear to you as ammunition.

      They know how important your kids are to you, and they know how important your identity is to you. So those may be one of the first things they attack. If you have kids, they tell you that you should not have had those children. They will tell you’d be a worthy person if only you didn’t have a long list of negative traits. They attack the foundation of your being.

      4. They wear you down over time.

      This is one of the insidious things about gaslighting—it is done gradually, over time. A lie here, a lie there, a snide comment every so often…and then it starts ramping up. Even the brightest, most self-aware people can be sucked into gaslighting—it is that effective. It’s the “frog in the frying pan” analogy: The heat is turned up slowly, so the frog never realizes what’s happening to it.

      5. Their actions do not match their words.

      When dealing with a person or entity that gaslights, look at what they are doing rather than what they are saying. What they are saying means nothing; it is just talk. What they are doing is the issue.

      6. They throw in positive reinforcement to confuse you.

      This person or entity that is cutting you down, telling you that you don’t have value, is now praising you for something you did. This adds an additional sense of uneasiness. You think, “Well maybe they aren’t so bad.” Yes, they are. This is a calculated attempt to keep you off-kilter—and again, to question your reality. Also look at what you were praised for; it is probably something that served the gaslighter.

      7. They know confusion weakens people.

      Gaslighters know that people like having a sense of stability and normalcy. Their goal is to uproot this and make you constantly question everything. And humans’ natural tendency is to look to the person or entity that will help you feel more stable—and that happens to be the gaslighter.

      8. They project.

      They are a drug user or a cheater, yet they are constantly accusing you of that. This is done so often that you start trying to defend yourself, and are distracted from the gaslighter’s own behavior.

      9. They try to align people against you.

      Gaslighters are masters at manipulating and finding the people they know will stand by them no matter what—and they use these people against you. They will make comments such as, “This person knows that you’re not right,” or “This person knows you’re useless too.” Keep in mind it does not mean that these people actually said these things. A gaslighter is a constant liar. When the gaslighter uses this tactic it makes you feel like you don’t know who to trust or turn to—and that leads you right back to the gaslighter. And that’s exactly what they want: Isolation gives them more control.

      StockLite/Shutterstock
      Source: StockLite/Shutterstock
      10. They tell you or others that you are crazy.

      This is one of the most effective tools of the gaslighter, because it’s dismissive. The gaslighter knows if they question your sanity, people will not believe you when you tell them the gaslighter is abusive or out-of-control. It’s a master technique.

      11. They tell you everyone else is a liar.

      By telling you that everyone else (your family, the media) is a liar, it again makes you question your reality. You’ve never known someone with the audacity to do this, so they must be telling the truth, right? No. It’s a manipulation technique. It makes people turn to the gaslighter for the “correct” information—which isn’t correct information at all.

      The more you are aware of these techniques, the quicker you can identify them and avoid falling into the gaslighter’s trap.

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  28. One final thought. If I’m some how “gaslighting” you, or driving you insane, you’re giving me a lot of power. I’m just posting my opinion. If I’m driving you insane that’s on you not me. I far as I know, there is no way someone can be driven insane by words or an opinion.

    Like

    1. It’s a lady who has been banned. She lives 100 miles away and must not have any life because she keeps trying to comment on things she knows nothing about. I might leave her comments and I might delete ever one of them. It is fun showing how ridiculous she really is.

      Like

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